Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee
Tuesday 14 February 2012
Senator WRIGHT: First of all, I would like to ask some questions about the status of the National Justice CEOs working group on justice reinvestment. I understand that under the umbrella of the National Justice CEOs group, the Commonwealth Attorney-General's Department is chairing a cross-jurisdictional working group created specifically to consider justice reinvestment or, in other words, criminal justice approaches which focus on addressing the causes of crime in particular locations. I understand this working group was due to provide a report to the National Justice CEOs in November 2011. Has the report been completed? When will it be released?
Mr Wilkins: Perhaps I could say a little bit about what we are doing. Is that what you want to know?
Senator WRIGHT: Specifically whether the report has been completed and when it will be released would be helpful.
Mr Wilkins: It will be completed shortly. Its release will be contingent on what the states and territories who are party to the report consider. It will go in due course to the attorneys for them to consider, so there is a little way for it to go yet before it is released. But it could be quicker than that, depending on what CEOs think of it.
Senator WRIGHT: I understand that it is not within your control. Would you hazard a guess as to the time frame?
Mr Wilkins: I could not do that but I know the attorneys are meeting in April. That is about the only guidance I could give. It may well be that the CEOs want to put it out there as well, but I suspect that they will want their political masters to have a chance to consider it.
Senator WRIGHT: Did the working group consult with Indigenous groups in the process of developing its report?
Mr Wilkins: I am not sure about that. It was certainly composed by people who had developed a number of programs with Indigenous groups and brought to bear a lot of experience in that regard. Whether or not they were specifically consulted for his purpose, I do not know, but you will appreciate that a lot of it looks at extant programs and programs that are being developed by various states and territories.
Senator WRIGHT: Could I ask you to take that question on notice. Also, if there was consultation undertaken, could you indicate which groups were consulted with.
Mr Wilkins: Okay. I do not think there is a clear answer to that question; that is what I am trying to say, but we will—
Senator WRIGHT: To the best of your ability—
Mr Wilkins: get something back to you.
Senator WRIGHT: Thank you. From what you are saying, if the report has not yet been completed, I do not suppose you can indicate if it has made recommendations about next steps and what the process and time line for the implementation of those recommendations would be. Can you indicate that?
Mr Wilkins: I said at the beginning that it was probably a good idea for me to say a little bit about justice reinvestment. It is used loosely across a number of continents and it means different things to different people. We have discovered that in talking to the states and territories. For some people the critical aspect of justice reinvestment is investing, if you like, in prophylaxis, prevention—investing at that end of the equation, the idea being that if you invest a small amount of money at that point you can alleviate a large expenditure later on on crisis expenditure. That is one concept of justice reinvestment which you might say is more aligned with prevention and early intervention.
There is also another concept floating around which seems to be quite important—that is, the idea of using private sector funds. It is being used to some extent in the United Kingdom and to some extent in the US. It is, if you like, where the private sector invests—often it is a non-government person or even a philanthropist who would invest money in that sort of preventative action—and then expects the money to be paid back if certain outcomes are achieved in terms of, say, bringing down the rate of recidivism et cetera. That is a different sort of emphasis. In this report New South Wales has kicked off a type of justice reinvestment that looks at social bonds, and we are interested in that. We are interested in looking at how the United Kingdom is going on that front. So that is the financial concept of justice reinvestment, but a lot of the report also deals, if you like, with getting a better handle on baselines and the basis for early intervention and prevention and looking at some of the programs that various states have been doing which are of that sort, even though they do not involve private finance.
The recommendations in the report are looking at ways forward in terms of monitoring what is happening on the financial side. I think people would like to see whether this works. There are a number of reasons for some people to be sceptical about that financial concept, but on the early intervention side, if you like, I think we do want to proceed and we want to look particularly at the issues around prisons and corrections, which might be one of the areas where you would get the best payback. Prisons are very expensive places for people to be sitting, and if you can think of ways and there are programs that are working in terms of, say, recidivism or even preventing people from getting in in the first place, particularly in relation to young people, then these may be worth backing. That is a long way of saying that I do not think there are going to be huge recommendations for people to be doing stuff on the financial side, but I think we want to take stock of what is being achieved and what is being done in terms of early intervention and prevention. So I think that will be sort of where the report is going.
Senator WRIGHT: Thank you very much for that. My next questions are about the government's response to the House of Representatives Doing time—time for doing report, which I understand may fall within group 2, program 1.5. Am I right in thinking that?
Mr Wilkins: Let me see what 1.5 is.
Senator WRIGHT: If you do not mind me jumping around a bit, it is just that it is a similar theme.
Mr Wilkins: Yes. I might get Ms Catherine Fitch to address that issue if that is all right.
Senator WRIGHT: Thank you, yes. The government's response to the House of Representatives Doing time—time for doing report indicated that the working group's report would enable the identification of gaps in services and gaps in the necessary data to better target programs and strategies. Has the working group identified the gaps in services and data, and if so what service gaps and data gaps have been identified?
Ms Fitch: Senator, could you just repeat the question about the connection between the Doing time report and the question you are actually asking.
Senator WRIGHT: Yes. The government's response indicated that the working group's report would enable the identification of gaps in services and gaps in the necessary data to better target programs and strategies. Has the working group identified the gaps in services and data?
Ms Fitch: I might just get a colleague to bring a copy of the government's response so I can ascertain the particular working group to which you are referring.
Senator WRIGHT: Sorry. I appreciate that that is a bit ambiguous, isn't it? My understanding is that it is the National Justice CEOs Group chairing a cross-jurisdictional working group, because the question has really followed on from what I was asking earlier; it is just that I understand it is a different part of the Attorney-General's Department that would be in a position to answer them.
Ms Fitch: We might need to take that on notice just to check the context. There are several avenues of work going on in this area.
Senator WRIGHT: Certainly. I am happy to do that, and that can possibly save time too. What I would then be interested in—again on notice—is: following identification of gaps in service delivery and data, has the department engaged, or will it engage, in preliminary justice mapping to identify areas of high offending? Is the department planning to undertake that work, and if so when? I have a further question. Again, if you feel that it would be useful to take these on notice, I am happy for you to do that. Back in December 2010, the department commissioned evaluations of 20 Indigenous justice programs which are consistent with justice reinvestment approaches. These evaluations are occurring under the National Indigenous Law and Justice Framework. The former Attorney-General, Robert McClelland, indicated in his September 2011 Lionel Murphy lecture that interim evaluation reports were due to be provided to the department by the end of 2011. Has the department received these interim reports and will they be publicly released?
Ms Fitch: The department has received interim reports in respect of the first tranche of evaluations that are occurring under the National Indigenous Law and Justice Framework. As to whether they are be publicly released, I think it probably was not initially proposed that it be the case. I am happy to follow up whether it is possible to release those, but I do emphasise that the way the valuations are being undertaken means necessarily that the information flowing from those interim reports is limited. The evaluations are due for completion by the end of this calendar year.
Mr Wilkins: The other thing is because we have done it in conjunction with the states, and they are evaluations of state programs, we are bound to ask the states that question too before releasing them because we are likely to lose credibility and comity with the states if we just bung these things out. We will take that on notice.
Senator WRIGHT: The government's response to the House of Representatives Standing Committee on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Affairs report Doing time—time for doing states that it accepts in principle the committee's recommendation that the Commonwealth government develop a national partnership agreement dedicated to the safe communities building block but that it would only consider developing such an agreement after a national Indigenous safe communities strategy has been put in place. What progress has been made to negotiate the national Indigenous safe communities strategy with the state and territory governments?
Ms Fitch: Preliminary work has been undertaken to develop the safe communities strategy. That is a project that is occurring over the next several months. It is not a simple exercise, as you will appreciate. It is really background work and initial consultation that has occurred at this stage. I should emphasise that it is a joint Attorney-General's Department-FaHCSIA co-led project.
Senator WRIGHT: Do you anticipate that the strategy will incorporate a justice reinvestment framework as a means of reducing rates of offending and victimisation in Indigenous communities?
Ms Fitch: It is difficult for me to pre-empt the outcome of those discussions as it is intended to be a consultative process with the states and territories. However, as Mr Wilkins has already indicated, there are a number of states and territories that are interested in the justice reinvestment type approach and it has been considered by national justice CEOs. I think it is possible that it will occur.
Senator WRIGHT: The government's response to the Doing time—time for doing report also accepted in principle the committee's recommendation that it endorse justice targets developed by the Standing Committee of Attorneys-General for inclusion in COAG's closing the gap strategy and that these targets should then be monitored and reported against. Has the government taken steps to include justice targets in COAG's closing the gap strategy?
Mr Wilkins: I was at discussions that occurred in what used to be called SCAG on this. The matter has been referred to a committee chaired by Minister Macklin to report back. As you will appreciate, this is a COAG issue. There are a number of key performance indicators, if you like, closing the gap and the Attorney suggested that community safety should be another. The question of whether that should occur on not in the context of the closing the gap program is being referred to Minister Macklin and a working group—I forget what it is called exactly—to presumably come back to COAG and the Prime Minister and the first ministers with a view as to whether that would be appropriate.
Senator WRIGHT: I have one last question. I will put my questions about the Optional Protocol to the Convention against Torture and the consolidation of antidiscrimination laws on notice. The government's response to Doing time – time for doing report indicated that the Australian Institute of Criminology is preparing a paper on the application of justice reinvestment in an Australian context. Do you know what the expected timeframe is for the release of that paper?
Mr Wilkins: We will have to take that on notice.
